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ENGLISH DOCS FOR THIS DATE- Q and A Period - District Offices, Co-audits (SHSBC-244) - L621122 | Сравнить
- Q and A Period - Tiger Drilling, Clears (SHSBC-243) - L621122 | Сравнить

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QUESTION AND ANSWER

QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD DISTRICT OFFICES CO AUDITS

A lecture given on 22 November 1962 A lecture given on 22 November 1962

Thank you.

Okay.

Well, we have a - what's the date?

Here we have the second Saint Hill Briefing Course lecture of November the 22nd,AD 12.

Audience: 22nd.

Now, our question period progresses and continues.

Twenty - second. Of what?

Okay. I've got a question here which is - I don't dig. Oh! It's a question, "Has some - has somebody been terminated or retained?" That is to say the fact of termination. This person is mixed up about the co - audit. The co - audit has ceased to exist. Termination is simply just termination. There is no further co - audit after termination as far as the course is concerned. You want to sit down up in East Grinstead or something like that and drop around once in a while it's perfectly all right with us. But as far as termination is concerned, that is just termination.

Audience: November.

Now, as far as auditing a pc outside, there was an offer there to the December 1st and so forth. Well, by all means hang around until December the 1st if you're not assigned classes or anything. But this doesn't constitute a co - audit. Termination's a termination. It means we have no further responsibility for your training and that I demand exclusively that you now operate. The termination says you are now an auditor.

Gee, you're in present time! Twenty - second of November, AD 12, Saint Hill Special Briefing Course, lecture one.

And here's, "When do I think this auditor's District Office would be likely to materialize officially?" Well, this whole question of a District Office, the Scientology 1970 should not be understood as first we redesign HCO WW and then we redesign Continental Offices and then we redesign city offices, and eventually get around to building up District Offices. The District Office has yet to evolve. There are no orders at this moment as what a District Office is supposed to do or what it constitutes. There has only been a thought of what it might be.

It hasn't been officially announced and you might not have seen the Mark V, but this is the Mark V E - Meter. And all in its pristine gray. It requires astronaut training to run this one. But this is a smasher and has nothing to do with a sales pitch; this is not a television commercial.

The person operating a District Office might take off in numerous lines. Might do numerous things. I notice that Melbourne was a bit mixed up on their clearing co - audit which is also a health co - audit which will also make you live longer and it's all on the same HAS Co - audit. See? Well, I would say a District Office shouldn't do that. See, that's four things that are combined into one activity. And that's hoping that everybody will come in on the same activity and go out the same way, you see? Actually, it's not designed that way. If you're going to run a clearing co - audit as a District Office, well, run a clearing co - audit as a District Office. But nobody in your district or area has heard of clearing - you can't seem to get anybody very interested in clearing - you've got a health co - audit, don't you see?

But we can't ship meters into the United States. And if you're getting out of here and if there is a Mark V available and you're going back to the States, you'd better take one. Because the FDA has now got several departments of mental - ha! - health. Interesting, isn't it, that the US government is going in very heavily for mental health with exclamation points. But by "mental health" they mean the electric shock machine, psychiatric incarceration instead of prison punishment. It had nothing to do with mental health at all. But they're very, very active.

You've got a springboard that you can take off from. But for a District Office that is now operating as a private practice - a fellow in private practice wants to go over into a District Office. What do we do? Cut off his head and make him totally insolvent? And say that he must take on no private pcs forevermore and that he can only run a clearing co - audit? But he hasn't any candidates for a clearing co - audit. He hasn't built anything up.

And there's some organization called the HEW - H - E - W - it's brand - new to me, Health and Education and Welfare, I think it must stand for, but it certainly sounds like HEW to me! The Washington organization's going round and round with these characters and we won't drive them into the hole - we'll drive them way down in the hole and then we'll pound the hole in on top of them because we're tired of them. We lick them, left and right. But they never learn! They just never learn. They never learn. We're bad people to attack.

Now, these things are not done with great suddenness and exclamation points. These things are evolved. We have yet to find out stably how can a District Office best survive? I know a lot about this because I know what made the Dublin office survive and not survive - and it came very close to being a District Office. It was little or no private processing - it was all group activity of one kind or another and if it had gone along and had good leadership along the line after I left it - it would have been very, very successful.

But it's quite interesting to me that the color and tenure and aspects of the United States are changing very, very rapidly and going over in the direction of superthought police - type think, you know? And I hate to see it go that way because it just means a little more work for us and we'll have to pound them in their hole and pound them down deep in the hole and then pound the PERIOD TIGER DRILLING CLEARS hole in on top of them and we will do so. I hate to have to even bring up the subject - particularly in front of ladies!

Had quite a bit of experience with this kind of an activity, but these things come down to economics. And before there are shifts, we've got to pioneer this action. Now, we have some things called District Offices. But there is nothing specified as to what they do. What is specified is that they are part of Scientology - that they are a regular Scientology office - various other conditions could be made concerning this, and have been made concerning their legality - part of the administrative framework. That sort of thing. But exactly how do they give service?

Well, we've got quite a bit of stuff and agenda here. Now, I put a notice on the board. This is a question lecture here, this hour, and I put a notice on the board that they had to be legible - written and legible. So, if your question doesn't get answered, I couldn't read it.

Well, that has got to be evolved. And you see that it'd be folly for me to say that they give service in just exactly this way, this way and this way whereas the matter of the data at hand is so slim that one couldn't say this. So maybe one District Office is a little sort of an HGC and another District Office is a co - audit for health addicts - and another one, they get a lot of things going on the subject of clearing, don't you see? And they gradually get their feet off the ground.

And first question is, is "Will Mark Vs be available to anyone who wants one?" Oh, well, why not. You can't do very much about it one way or the other. As far as controlling the meter is concerned, when you control a meter you control nothing. That's not a good point of control in Scientology. They can be built all over the place. The thing is a hundred years old. I mean, they've been monkeying with the Wheatstone bridge for a hundred years.

Now, anybody in his district or area at this particular time has some income line or some flowing line on the subject of Scientology. There's already some action taking place in that immediate area. Well, the question is to build that action and evolve that action, as a District Office. And you'll wind up with a very strong District Office. But you're not going to kill off the interest, the enthusiasm in various lines - then put in an arbitrary thing and try to smash people's enthusiasm into that - because it never smashes. It just smashes. You can't detour this enthusiasm - you can - you can gradually shepherd it. You can do other things with it. Let's say we have twenty people in Riverside who are very, very interested in their auditor coming back from Saint Hill. So we say to this fellow, "All right, you're a District Office. You're going to be a District Office." And fine, he says, "Swell." That's good with him. He never particularly liked the franchise setup and it's left him in a great deal of - with no financial resources or anything like that. So he's going to be a District Office. All right.

We have copyrights and patents on these meter circuits and nobody can put one together like this. But they can still get kids' toys and toy lie detectors and junk like this and you actually can't control from the point or area of meter. Where you control from is copyrights and registered marks and that sort of thing. Yeah, anybody can have a meter.

Now he goes back into this district or this area. He's got twenty people. Well, he's certainly going to have to talk it over with these twenty people what they're going to do. And then his District Office does what they're going to do. Get the idea? That's the criteria on which you build it.

My motto is, is if they're that ambitious, let them get in trouble and they'll have to go to an Academy and learn how. Okay.

Now, when District Offices are straightened out and all of that is very smooth - then we'll start putting together city offices to take care of that service sphere and then we'll put together the other offices to take care of the lower offices. You cannot build a house by laying in the roof tree first. It just can't be done. So any question about a District Office - yes, we intended every auditor's activity anyplace should be a District Office.

"What pcs do you audit when doing research auditing and what time do you do research auditing? This has puzzled me for quite a time." Puzzled me, too!

What is the activity of a District Office? It is what they make it. What service does a District Office get? It's what they've got to be given. You get this? And that way we'll build a strong structure from the bottom up. And the services that are given will be real and the people who will be supporting it and doing it will be real and their interest and service they'll consider real, don't you see?

Research auditing: I learned quite a bit from being audited - have across the ages - otherwise I'd have no subjective reality on what we were doing at all. I'm a rather easy audit. But the research auditing which I do are divided into two classes: One is pcs I directly audit and pcs I indirectly audit. And I normally will get some auditor - you, amongst you here, have done some research auditing - for me. I have told you to do a certain thing and then I've sort of watched the lines to make sure that it was going all right and then it has come up to an end and I've decided something about that. Not necessarily experimental, but it is to prove a point or to prove some oblique point.

Now, if I were going to set up a District Office - this is a different proposition, see? If I myself were going to set up a District Office - and I'm just an auditor now and I can clear people or run co - audits and I've had experience in this various lines - I'd probably go rent a store. I probably wouldn't take the front room of my house. I'd probably go rent a store, an old empty store someplace or another. They're wide - pardon me, they're narrow and deep. You can put auditing room partitions in the back of them, you can put book displays in the front of them, you can make them look good, you can curtain off an area just inside the door from the street. You've got a big room there you can set up two lines of chairs in and people can do co - auditing. In other words, this is fine. And it also gives you street visualness. And you put up a proper book display and some other displays in the window that says what you're doing and that sort of thing.

For instance, Williams was used as a research pc. I think he knew it at the time. At the time, no better goals action was in prospect - he wasn't getting very far - and I had a list of "Who are you?" and "Who opposes you?" and so forth, listed on him for a very long time, just wondering if you could totally bypass a goal. He will tell you that it did him some good and anybody who wanted to get some items on his case could take that old list and they'd undoubtedly find some things that slammed on it. I'm sure it didn't louse him up particularly, but it showed us that we - it was pretty certain that you couldn't just list straight items through to Clear.

And then I'd go into it hammer - pound and I would pick up - I would send out a great many feelers. I would get some lines going out of one kind or another. And I'd see which one of those lines responded. And that one I would hit hard and then I'd build it. I'd build it from there. And I wouldn't change it as long as that line was successful. I would just keep it building. I wouldn't split or disperse my interest. See, all of a sudden to find that all the high schools in the vicinity are so juvenile delinquented that they don't know whether they're coming or going. Then I find that everybody's terribly interested in this. Everybody's fascinated with this. Everybody listens to it. Find out they understand what I say on the subject.

My own auditing - I was auditing on a research line; audited Reg going over to America - but this is partially research auditing and partially just trying to give somebody a hand, you see?

Well, I don't run this District Office, then, day and night, on this subject and that subject and another subject and another subject and another subject and ... No, I'd just reach out and I'd grab three hundred and eighty - five high school students and I start them through the thing, man. And as far as persuading the student - high school students to go through it, well, I'd - that's fine. But I also persuade other people to make them go through it. You get the idea? And I arrange for certain set charges and they all come in and they co - audit and they gradually get so they can see the wall, you know?

I keep up with all modern techniques. That is to say, anything that you're using now, I am using. Any type of session you are using, I am using in research auditing. I try not to depart from these things. I could probably audit without using any of these things. Nevertheless, I know then what frailties you will run into. That is one of the facets of research auditing. When I run into dead ends then I know that you're running into dead ends, don't you see?

And everybody'd be very happy with me. I'd go around to parent-teacher's meetings every now and then - get three or four auditors to help me - HPA, HCA level auditors to help me. Knock their heads in if they don't give proper technical supervision. Don't let anything get weird on the subject. There's certain fellows there that have to have a certain amount of help, which is individualized help. They're much too tough - they can't even sit in the chair, you know? Well, I'd pray to have a city office running an HGC to turn them over to. Because frankly, I would not have time to do it.

And audited three pcs in Washington in addition to one that Reg audited. He's probably forgotten Fairchild. I was testing him out for entrances. And had been auditing Mary Sue hot and heavy and hard along the 3GA Criss Cross line. Not just going in the direction of finding a goal, but in actually peeling back the items one right after the other; and will go on doing so until a goal flies up. That is a research audit proposition. Possibly I could have found her goal a long time ago, see. Found various methods of entrance.

I mean, that is about the way I would go in along the line. But it's a matter of feeling your way. And developing what you find. And not staying on a big dispersal - and hitting every line all over the place. Because you start following an interest line in the society, it actually requires all of your interest, all of your attention, to keep that one line going. And you can keep it going very, very well.

"And when do I do this research auditing?. "

In Ireland, oddly enough, what happened to the office is quite interesting. It's - because it happened to it after I left there. It was quite solvent and everything was fine till I left there. The idea got home that longshoremen were not quite nice. I was developing a land office business in longshoremen. These were tough mugs. It was quite remarkable. These characters were coming in and somebody disagree with the Instructor or something like that - well, their full answer was to throw him out, bodily, see? They didn't even talk good English. They weren't educated, you know? They probably sweated a bit, you know, down on the docks.

Usually from about 10:30 to about 1:30 in the morning. Answered? All right. There are other people that get audited from time to time, some of them know it and some don't.

That was developing at a high roar. These characters and their union and everybody else was getting very interested in this, you know? And it was a matter of, "Well, Tim, I think you ought to go down there tonight, since I'm not - Tim?" He'd be down there that night.

Your case reports are always of assistance, always of assistance. Particularly it tells me what you can do successfully. That is what I watch that for. I seldom bluntly assign something new or strange to be done, but I want to know if you can get results with what you're using. And when I see that too many auditors are not getting results with what they're using, why, I then do something drastic about it.

These guys were very solidly behind us. And the people - not necessarily the people that followed me there - but some of the people who were there decided this was not quite nice. And they got in some intellectual louses who were very intellectual. And in spite of my telling everybody that an intellectual is defined as somebody who thinks about things - and we didn't want anybody thinking about anything - we wanted people doing things. And these longshoremen were absolutely ideal. But the next thing you know, why, these crude characters and types were being discouraged and so on - and then there were other little nasty things like this fellow wasn't quite nice because he was a member of the IRA - and this other fellow wasn't quite socially acceptable, you see, because, because, because. And next thing you know they didn't have a solvent office.

That is another entire, different channel of research, by the way, is: What can an auditor do, what will he use and what results can he obtain? Now, that is an entirely separate thing. I've never kidded myself about that at all. And one of the reasons we've made success is just because I can make a technique work or just because I have a theory, I don't ever classify that as true at all. Never do.

Now, the only thing that happened there is I found this track in the society. I found this zone of interest. And I was busy driving this thing home. Think of it. If every longshoreman in Ireland had gotten very interested in this and that had gone over into the drivers and teamsters and think - and taxicab drivers and this birds and that birds and the other birds and - and if it had hit there at the doingness strata of the society, think of what would have been the final result of all this. Instead of that we finally wound up with fifteen or twenty people sitting around talking about it. And I thought it was awfully sweet, and we closed the office. I was no longer there. I'd been gone for ages. But that was an interesting thing.

Most scientific research is team research. It is done mostly by cross-coordination of records. Modern research all has a certain pattern. It's done by cross - coordination of records, it's done by various - following various lines through. It's a very expensive procedure and basically we can't afford it. And perhaps if we had fifteen or twenty billion dollars, why, we'd be almost as far as we are now. We don't do that type of research.

You have to look into the society and find a track - find a place where you can drive something through, you see? And then you don't keep hammering around at other places where you can't drive something through - you keep adding up all of your hammer blows on that one track, if you're dealing in a small area. And when you finished it up, man, you've got a hole driven through all of the results, all of the objections of this and that, you see?

What we're doing is a research line which is directly empirical, but we will be able to achieve a result and then we try to broaden the number of people that result can be achieved on and then try to get it into some form so that an auditor can and will apply it and will be able to achieve that result himself. And those are about the steps which it ordinarily would take.

And the only times I've ever seen Scientology on a dissemination pattern fold up is when a specialized proven line was not forwarded. And I've seen something come off of that. I've seen time split up. I have seen something else happen in that area that shouldn't have happened, see? A dispersal of interest, a dispersal of activity - and then it failed. So that's the criteria, actually. That's all I can almost - all I can tell you about a District Office, see.

And the auditor is always a quotient in this. He's always a factor. If I had two or three bugs, as practically every research scientist on Earth has, we would be nowhere. And amongst those bugs is scarcity of theory. A theory is something valuable; a theory is something you get down and worship, particularly if you yourself have thought of it, you see? And he says, marvelous theory, and then you do nothing the rest of your life but peddle this theory, you see?

Who's to man the District Office? Well, the people that man the District Office are people necessary to take care of the business of the District Office. What is the business of the District Office? Well, it's that business which best disseminates in that particular area for that particular office.

Man, I can think up more theories and throw them out more windows than we've got. Never hold on to a theory, never hold on to a technology if it appears weak. Just dream up another one, go along another line.

Now, you ask me what and I say at once, well, there it is. And who should run a District Office, who gets a District Office? That's very interesting. What do you get for getting a District Office? Well, I got the answer to that one the other day. We've now got several District Offices. They were fairly successful franchise offices. And, let me tell you this. A person who has been a party to or has formed up a District Office has now this: He has the rights to that post or position in a District Office. You think that over for a moment. That's quite revolutionary. That's quite revolutionary, if you think it over. He has a right to a District Office or that equivalent post in the District Office.

This way, you see research being done over a period of a dozen or fifteen years - the concentrated research of Dianetics and Scientology, which - I don't know, is possibly two or three hundred year development, maybe two or three thousand, as far as I know. But it's quite rapid. And that's the basis of why the research is rapid, is I have no enamorment of theories. If a theory is right, marvelous. But it is never so right that it can't be wrong and it certainly - there's no slightest desire to hold onto it. And then I don't give a damn whether people think I'm a good research man or not, see? I just couldn't care less. The only thing I'm interested in is a result - a result.

Let's say somebody was a Receptionist in a District Office and it built up to a very successful District Office while that person was there. All right, what are the rights of that person in that District Office? Well, they're the rights to be a Receptionist in a District Office. Now, what does this take care of? This takes care of the people moving from - well, somebody gets awfully tired of lower South Amboy and they want to go to lower Chicago. And, all right. What do they do, just give up any rights to anything that they have built or constructed or something.? No, it's up to the organization to give them an equivalent spot in a District Office. That's what they own - that's their right, don't you see? They've earned that right. They have a right to one such spot, don't you see?

The whole woof and warp of Dianetics and Scientology is on the basis of "Does it work?" And it's the result that counts. No aggrandizement or anything else. The only time you'll hear me kick is when I've developed something and somebody else puts it out with an alter - is. Because then they, to some degree, have made me guilty of lousing somebody up at the other end and I squawk on that. You notice medicine in the United States has now adapted themselves over into early Dianetics. They're in the earliest of early Dianetics and they don't know quite where they're going.

Now let's say somebody went in there and hammer and pound and so forth and he was head of a District Office and so forth. He'll always be head of a District Office. If he got made a successful District Office, he always has a District Office. All right, he wants to go to lower Chicago, and nobody in lower Chicago has built anything up, there isn't anything in lower Chicago and so forth. Well, obviously the organization would have to finance - well, it was agreed that lower Chicago was a good place to put it in - the organization would have to finance him a District Office in lower Chicago. They would appoint, however - and this is what covers the one point where we've been missing on dissemination - and believe me, this is the only point we've really been missing on dissemination - lower South Amboy is not suddenly without a District Office just because this fellow wanted to go to lower Chicago.

Now, that's about the speed of Earth research. Somebody has dreamed up something and then in a dozen or fifteen years somebody else takes an alter - ised version of it and you start hearing something about it. And do you know where they've progressed to?

And that's our biggest point of failure. Auditor pulling up stakes and going someplace else and he doesn't have anybody to turn his group or his connections or anything else over to, and listen - when that happens, I hear from people or I don't hear from people, and they're usually all ARC broke. And somebody spent - we spend a lot of our time individually building up some particular area and then, very often, just go off and leave it. And it collapses and nothing picks it up. The District Office is basically an idea formed - that after an interest and so forth has been built up in an area that it will be continued in that area without nailing that auditor down in that area. Because auditors are shifty - footed - they go places.

Well, they're not consecutively up to Dianetics. They haven't really started reading the first book, see? But they - I'm not even being funny now - they've now realized that silence is necessary in the operating room. But they are not willing to practice it. Now, there's where they are. They have already accepted prenatals as a spectacular action. And this has taken how many years? It's taken a dozen years, see?

And so all right, so he's built a District Office. It must have an address and it must have this and it must have that and must have the other thing, naturally - always does. Structure of activity. And this person, this person isn't going to stay in Riverside forever.

All right now, just realize that that was probably the developmental span in Dianetics of a couple of weeks. See? All right. Now, therefore, one week equals six years or something like that and you'll about have the difference of research actions - the difference of time ratio in them. The way I'm doing research is, let us say, the week and the way they're doing research is about six years.

Well, all right, so he gets in touch with his next immediate area - you see every District Office doesn't necessarily have a city office over it. He gets in touch with his next contact up the line and he says, "I'm leaving Riverside. I want to leave Riverside. And I want to be out of here by the first of November." They're going to have to find somebody in Riverside, that's all. They're going to have to put somebody down in Riverside. You see how that would work out?

Now, that works a hardship on auditors. That works a hardship on auditors. I'm very well aware of this and often very ashamed of it. I have to junk something that you're getting results with, see? I give you a new curve, I give you something up front, something more distant than that, you're perfectly happy. This class would be perfectly happy today if we had nothing more than I gave you just before I left for America, on 3GA Criss Cross, you see. You'd still be sweating around on this and you'd still be finding some goals and it'd be all right. You'd muck it through somehow or another. Well, I gave you tremendous extensions on this, see?

Therefore, that territory which has been conquered stays conquered. You're not always abandoning territory. I mean, the amount of work which auditors have done to straighten out or fix up various areas in the world, it'd break your heart. Because when they move on, when they change interest, when they do this or that - then that area and zone collapses and that ceases to be conquered territory, and it's quite interesting. So the District Office is basically a design which will not nail the auditor down in one spot for the rest of his life and which continues that area as a going concern. And that's what it's all about.

Well, it has a tendency to overwhelm you slightly with data. But if you understood why this is happening and the rate of advance - if you understood those things - then you wouldn't feel so overwhelmed. I won't be happy in cutting off intensive research on clearing until you can sit down and find somebody's goal with great speed and great accuracy, do you see? And right now we're dealing with something that's just a little bit tough for an auditor. I recognize we're dealing in 3A - GA Criss Cross with something that's just a little bit too hard. You're making mistakes, see, and it's taking you a little bit long. But I'm confident that you'll get the hang of it.

Financing and that sort of thing is a delicate point. It's sometimes hard to take care of It's got to be done on a give - and - take proposition. The amount of money which can be made by a District Office is basically made by the developed patterns of approach to people. I learned an awful lot about this in Ireland - I really did, in Dublin. It was quite amazing. I had a ball over there. I figured if you could put one together in Ireland you could put one together in hell. Let me tell you man, that's marvelous! I mean, that's - that's fantastic. You had groups of people who could not define or encompass create. They could not define it or encompass it - couldn't talk about it, couldn't agree or admit that it existed. How do you like this? Fabulous! Blow your brains out.

The main things you're doing wrong is just not completing lists. And I told you to dig out those lists and you didn't. Give her a flunk - flunk her. I wanted to show you a right list and a wrong list. Let me show you that right now, regardless of these questions. I must get this across to you. Particularly you guys that are departing - you're liable to make some horrible mistakes.

They had people at work who were all the time telling them it was against the church for them to come down to that particular horrible place. They were running up and down the streets with placards. "We have never heard of those people across the street," see? And they were making a big noise about it, you know? Oh yeah, had everything you could think of against us. And we still climbed the hill. And I thought, "If you can do it here, you can do it anyplace."

Here's an item. This is an item. And this is another item. This is another item. This is another item. This is another item, see?

Hope that answers some of your questions on it. Didn't mean to get too lengthy on it.

This is a list, this is a roll - your - own, this is any kind of an item, see? Any kind of a list you're making for assessment, see? Well, I opened one of your folders the other day - yours. And I thought, "Oh, my God!" you know? "Oh, ha! How can anybody do this?" You know what this list looked like?

"Please, will you let us have suggestions for handling co - audit listing. Would an amplifying system with earphones, each audit coupled with a panel meter control be practiced and so forth?" Very burning question. A very, very interesting question. And it's asked directly and immediately in the middle of the development on the answers to it. I hate to see you nailed down with that much electronic gear. See? By the time somebody sits down in the seat he looks like an astronaut, you know? I just don't think it should be that complicated.

Lists don't look like that! That's an incomplete list. Just the symptom of these things on it; it's incomplete. What are you doing? See? Why are you pursuing it? Or it's coming from the wrong source. You've got no business listing this line anyhow.

But what I'm trying to do - what I'm trying to do is, at the expense of it being much longer and taking much longer - develop a clearing technique that could be run very, very solidly in a co - audit by just maybe two or three repetitive commands. I know one right now that would probably do it in three commands. Same as the old HAS Co - audit. You write the commands up on the blackboard and if the - if the pc says something or does something the auditor frightenedly puts out his hand to the back of the chair and an Instructor goes up and handles it, you know? That kind of an action. He's just supposed to say these three things.

When you listed the line you got no TA action. Why'd you keep on listing the line? Any list has got to give you TA action - except the goals list. Oddly enough the goals list is completely in reverse. A goals list that gives you TA action is incomplete - goal isn't on it.

And I don't envision any listing on written pages in a co - audit. You're rapidly breaking down certain percentages of pcs. Rapidly breaking it down here into what types and kinds of pcs there are, and so on. Well, they're all the same kind of pc, but some of them list easier than others and some of them this way and some of them that way, don't you see? And there's about 25 or 30 percent of the pcs have no business on a co - audit, a clearing co - audit, see. They would just fumble and dumble. Well, I'm trying to hit at that level of case for the tests I'm making on these three commands. And I'm trying to handle the toughest case that you could get, to handle it.

When you're nulling a goals list and you get TA action, knock it off and find some items. There's a fast tip for you. Now, I'll show you how this thing ought to look, if I can get this apart without collapsing the place. Now, this is something on this order.

Now, we wouldn't have a clue as to how many years this fellow was on a co - audit before he went Clear. We just have a guarantee of progress. Now, the main - the main thing we're after in a co - audit then - the direction we're trying to take - is a repetitive command basis which is relatively unsupervised. That is to say, as far as listening directly and immediately through meters and earphones is concerned. The remedy is policing the co - audit as it occurs. Auditors - HPAs and so forth - are quite successful in doing this. I like the way they handle this sort of thing. They do it well. They get a number of raw meat pcs lined up in the pcs' chairs and the auditors' chairs and so forth and they handle it from there. And they've always been very good at this. So that's something auditors do well.

Now - I'll show you how one of these things ought to look. It's very simple. Here's your list, here's your item. You know, your item of lists, something like that, see.

Now, it could possibly be improved by having a meter, a line and a bunch of electronic gear and a microphone and all that sort of thing. Probably this could all be improved in that particular way. Is it justified to do so? That is my only question. Because the direction of research which is where I hope it will wind up, will be in the direction of not requiring it. The way you handle a co - audit, the way you've always handled HAS Co - audits, you'd handle them all the same way. Be the same old pattern. It's gotten creaky. If you don't know it, ask somebody who's run one. There must be a dozen people here who've run them for months and months and months or years on end. See, you just put them down in the chair and, I mean, the guy's supposed to utter the auditing command, and, actually the Instructor who is present audits the lot. It's his responsibility, and the raw meat audits beautifully as long as there's somebody there that they can put that hand out and say, "He - he - he didn't answer the question." That's the direction of development. It's not the mechanical direction. Or not this particular direction.

Now, this is the page on which the item was found. You got that now? This is the page on which it was found. So, you can understand how much less the other pages are. It looks like this. That's the way it looks.

We have more need of this here than in a co - audit. I would like to see supervision capable of being done in paired chairs in a room here, in the Z Unit only. Boy, you know, you're awful lucky, those of you who are leaving. You're terribly fortunate that you got through the Y Unit. Because you know, probably never again in the history of Saint Hill will anybody get through the Y Unit. Do you realize that? Isn't that sad?

Your lists look like that? Well, if they don't, you're listing an incomplete list. That thunderstruck some of you, didn't it? Well, if that - if you're listing and your final page doesn't look like that - remember you're tiger drilling these days - see? I'll give you this, I'll be very sweet to you and give you this. And if your final page doesn't look pretty much like that, why, the list was not complete or you weren't listing from a proper source. I've upset some of you, haven't I? Nobody dares say "yes," because I'd know at once - I know already!

Do you know what the Y Unit, those coming up to the Y Unit face? Some people face firing squads. Others face other things. But the people who are coming up the line now are not going to get out of the Y Unit until they get a clean needle on their pc with the pc's tone arm at the Clear read. And when they've got their pc like that, they get out of the Y Unit. Do it with the meter, I mean, we're not going to keep meterless auditing in, see? Going to be very standard auditing and probably never again will anybody ever get into the Z Unit. I thought you would be cheered. That puts a - puts a cheery light on your termination here. See, you can go away with a smile now, because you at least have gotten through the Y Unit.

You know, that on an absolutely complete - complete list that has got the item on it and so forth - and with the pc listing from the exact right line and mid ruds in - pc in good ARC with the auditor - the auditor auditing the pc in front of him, not auditing for the Instructor. You know that just page after page of this stuff goes out. It just goes out. You read it once. You don't say committing overts against" or anything. You just read it once and it's out, once and it's out and once and it's out - it's out, it's out, it's out, it's out, it's out , it's out, it's out - there's one in.

Future concentration of auditing supervision will be the X and the Y Unit. The X Unit is going to be tougher than the Y Unit. But we're going to let people through into the Y Unit. Up to that, the only thing that lets a person out of the Y Unit is pc's TA at Clear read - needle clean, free, pc's goal has already come up, it's all ready to be listed - on the second goal.

Now, your mid ruds go out - all of a sudden you see something like this: In, in, in, in. "Oh." You say, "Uh - uh - uh, oh - oh - oh, whoa - whoa - whoa - whoa - whooooooa!" You say, "What'd you think about?"

No, we're not going to be quite that extreme. We don't absolutely demand that the pc's goal have come up in the Y Unit. Also the Y Unit's auditing hours are going to be expanded enormously. There'll be a minimum of twelve hours a week in the Y Unit - minimum - given and received. Because that's where auditing skill deteriorated here a little bit - was in the Y Unit, see? So we just go to extremes and let it ride that way and let people cope with it. So you're awful lucky to get out of here.

He says, "Oh, nothing, except that first one up there, I realized that was silly."

That's all I can answer off of that one. Let's see another one here. "When a t - e - r . . ." I suppose that's terminal, "in the bank is visible to the pc and it is constant, can this be used as a shortcut to the goal?"

And you say, "Okay. Thank you very much." Read the first one again, it's out, out, out, out, out, out, out. You wind up with eight, nine, ten in, out of about a hundred. And then they go out, out, out. You've got about four in; tiger drill them - rapid Tiger Drill.

That isn't any guarantee that that is the goals terminal. That is no guarantee that it is a terminal. It will have the goal somewhere in it. Now, how it could be used as a shortcut of the goal - if it's identified and if it is checked out with a rock slam and if these other things are true - that is, if standard procedure also backs this up - yeah, that'd be a very, very likely terminal. That would be a honey. If it's backed up with everything else. It, of course, every item you know has its own goal. Doesn't necessarily rocket read or anything like that. But it's quite amusing that if you have - if you have a rock slamming reliable item and it's "a tiger," see. And there it is, rock slamming item, "tiger," and everything's fine, you've got it, found it, reliable. And it's a terminal. If you listed its goals, amongst its goals you would find its goal.

And I noticed you doing something the other night that you must not do. Tiger Drill is Tiger Drill - Tiger Drill is Tiger Drill. It has never been modified. The original drill is just as it is in the bulletin you'll get there - you'll get there. Now, if you want to polish this up and get fancy, why, add Careful of; and if you want to polish it up and get fancier, add the Protest. And you've got what passes for Tiger. But actually, the basic Tiger Drill is just the basic Tiger Drill and runs something like this: You read the thing and it fires so you say, "Invalidate." You read the thing, it doesn't fire so you say, "Suppress."

Before every engram a person had a goal. Before every difficulty in life that he was confronting he had a goal. And similarly, every valence and item he runs into has a goal. And the weird part of it is if that goal is very, very close to the main channel goal, it'll rocket read - once, twice, six, eight times. And folds up, and you never see it again. Did you ever notice in going down a long goals list that you'll strike goals occasionally that rocket read? It goes pssww! There it is, there's a goal rocket reading. And you check it, and by golly, it'll go pssww! You say, "Boy, that's really something, you know," and you tiger drill the thing out, and you trot out Big Tiger, and you're going to groom this whole thing up, and it goes, pssww! And then it goes tick. And then it stops. And you say, "On this goal, has anything been suppressed?" No read. "On this goal, anything you have been careful of?" No read. "To catch catfish." No read. Sad story.

Now, you don't prepcheck Suppress, is what I'm getting around to, see? You don't do anything with it. A Tiger Drill is a Tiger Drill, you understand?

I mean, a lot of you have attended the funeral of goals that went like that. Well, what you've struck there is the central goal of one of these items. You see, it's on the channel of the goal, see? It's very close to the goal. It's not much use to you till after the case is Clear. You could go back and see this circled X, and you could say, "What relationship did this goal have, 'to spit,' have to do with 'catching catfish'?" you see? "What was the relationship between these two goals?" And he could tell you. Well, naturally the best way to catch catfish is you spit first and that tells you whether or not you're going to be lucky or not, see? And he tells you all about it. Doesn't do you a bit of good. At the time you first find this he won't be able to integrate it worth a nickel, he'll give you some wild tale. And he actually doesn't know which way to go to find these goals.

Audience: Mm - hm.

But do you understand what I mean? Occasionally these things'll rocket read. And it's quite amusing. It's not really amusing, after you've seen four or five or six rocket reads or even eight or ten rocket reads, off of some item, and you're big tiger drilling it, and everything is fine and you're going to come back and you check it, and you come back the next morning and you check it and it doesn't do anything. It goes tick and phumph. And then you prepcheck it, you know, and you keeps asking the pc, "Do you have a pain? Do you have a pain?" you know? Pc keeps saying, "Yes, I do have pain, on the end of my nose," and so forth, and the end of the session or something like that, it doesn't tick, it isn't suppressed, nothing. There are no pains, there's no sensation. And it's gone.

Anytime else you strike Suppress - mid ruds, you strike it in the mid ruds, you strike it in Prepchecking - and you want to make sure because this is a very suppressive pc. This is a very unusual circumstance. You know, they're very suppressive pcs so we're going to do it while we're trying to get items out, you understand? That's unusual. As you're going down the list you say, "To catch catfish." Reads. "On this goal has anything been invalidated?"

That's fine. That's one of the - one of the liabilities of auditing. But that was the goal of a terminal or an oppterm. Mostly terminals rocket read, I don't know that oppterms ever rocket read. But I don't know that. They might. Now, the sad part of it is - this is the - this - you think that's - is a sad story. Well, there's a sadder story than this. After you've nulled another thousand goals and found thirty more items - you take all goals that went out hard and you accidentally put that goal back on the list. And you check it out and it's got pain and it rocket reads. And you look at the intervening thirty - five hours of hard labor, as totally useless. Actually, it's not. The thing was never in a condition to rocket read till you unburdened it. But it gives you a horrible sensation.

See? Gives you the answer; you say, "To catch catfish." It doesn't read. You say, "On this goal has anything been suppressed?" Doesn't read, you say, "Thank you, that's out."

I had this happen to me twice in Washington. Pcs were delighted and I was spitting my teeth out. "What do you mean having that goal back again? That was out three days ago!" By the way, I'll give you another parting shot on goals. Pain reads below the meter. If there's pain on something it might not show up on the meter, but it'll show up on the pc with pain. And it is characteristic of all these goals which have faded out and then come back, that when you got the pain, (quote) all off of them (unquote), on Monday, you found pain on them on Tuesday. And when you got it all off of them on Tuesday you found pain on them on Wednesday. And then thirty days later you've abandoned it because you cleaned it all up - and thirty days later you happened to hit it again and it's got pain on it. This isn't a - this isn't a wonderful test, because also phony goals that are almost right will follow this to some degree.

Tiger Drill is just Tiger Drill, you understand? That's how you get these items out. And that's why you're going down the line and just sweating yourself silly, you know? You're taking five, ten minutes to tiger drill one of these things out, you know?

But on a bad - on the wrong goal, if it's going to be the wrong goal, if the pain does persist for quite a while and you can get it several sessions and you can get pain back and all that sort of thing - it will eventually disappear and you can't get any back. But on the right goal you can never make this happen. You can never get the pain to go away and stay away. You can get it to go away, but you can't get it to stay away. It'll be back next session, it'll be back next week, it'll be back and so on. As long as that goal remains unfound it'll continue to give the pc pain. And that's something you might use sometime or another. It's a very, very useful point. You find an old list of goals and somebody says, "Well, I cleaned up Joe's goals. I just got them all clean and Joe's just clean as the driven snow with his goals, see. All tiger drilled and so on, we prepchecked a couple of them, been listed all clean and so forth."

It says, "cowboy," see. "Cowboy" reads. "On this goal has anything been invalidated?" No tick. "On this goal has anything been suggested?" See? "On this goal has a mistake been made?" - or, "On this item has a mistake been made?" rather. Pang! Reads. "What was the mistake?"

You say, "Well, that's fine, then I don't have to bother with any of those." Boy, have you made a mistake. Go back and read your Routine 3 - 21. It says you haul out the old goals, doesn't it? Why do you haul the old goals out? I'll let you in on why that step is in there. You haul them out and you just go down them as a list. Well, if they've all been cleaned up - see, you haven't found the pc's goal yet - and they've all been cleaned up and one of them's got pain on it - it isn't that the former auditor didn't get the pain off - he did. But the pain's come back. And boy, I would walk around that goal with the greatest of care. I'd really cuff that goal up. And I'd see, if after I got it all cleaned up, the pain came back - or if I could get it cleaned up. And I'd be very disappointed if I could get all the pain off of it and no pain came back, because obviously from then on it's no good.

"Well, you said so - and - so and I said so - and - so."

But let's say those goals were all cleaned up last month and you've now got the pc to audit this month. You go down this list and so on, and there's "to catch catfish," and it's just like all these other goals, and you read "to catch catfish," and the pc goes ...

"Thank you very much." Read the goal again - don't even read "mistake" again, see? Why waste the extra read? Why test it?

You say, "What's the matter?"

You say, "Cowboy." Didn't read. "On this goal has anything been suppressed?" Didn't read, it's out. You understand?

"Well, I've got a pain." Doesn't show on the meter. See, he - it hurts. And you just keep working it then. Work Suppress and other things, just kind of prepcheck it, you know. Next thing you know, its showing on the meter. And two things can happen: It is either the goal or will fade out - forever. But you mustn't omit the fact that there's a chance that it is the goal. That's why you always go over all those old goals again.

Listen, anything that is in, is charged. You've read it too far. You think the charge comes from the Suppress or the Invalidate or from - you think the read comes from the "Invalidate" or "Suggest" or the "Careful of " And it doesn't. See, the read doesn't come from there. The read doesn't come because he's invalidated it.

Now, on doing the second goal, there's a possibility that you had it on his first goals list, but it wasn't time for it to come up and take its bow. So it's always a good idea to go over goals that went out hard when you're looking for the second goal, as one of your first areas of action. And that's why 3 - 21 is written the way it is. You do everything on it that you did the first time when you're finding the second goal, including assembling all the old goals.

Did it ever occur to you why, when you say to some pc something or other and you get a rock slam - one time you get a rock slam, see, just random rock slam on the list! You say, "Careful of" and you got a rock slam. Where's that from? What's that? That fades away, that washes, see? It's not in.

Actually, finding a second goal is ordinarily a very simple ... It is just exactly Routine 3 - 21. It is exactly what you do. There's no variation off Routine 3 - 21 on the second goal. There might be on the first goal because you have to find items and unburden and work like mad and you have to do 3GA Criss Cross where Step 4 is, you see. Second goal - why, you just write yourself a list of goals and start tiger drilling that list and that goal will be on it someplace. And you go on down the line and you might not have to find one or - more than one, two, three items and oppose them, before it's just Prehav level, Prehav level. Where's the goal? Where's the items? Where's the mass? Where's the meter reads? Dust it off with a Prepcheck and there she goes - she's gone. Second goal, by our experience, goes much, much faster. Oh, I don't know, by about a tenth, or a twentieth as fast as the first goal. And there's just that much reduction ratio apparently on the third goal. Fourth goal may start to go by inspection. What's your goal? And he says, "To catch waterbucks."

But on the next item he was careful of that one and he didn't get a rock slam. Did it ever occur to you to ask this burning question: How come on some items you get a rock slam, and some items you get a heavy fall and some items you don't get anything.?

You say, "All right, let's check that out on the meter. Let's check it out on the meter. We're going to check it out on the meter now. All right, here you go: 'To catch waterbucks. To catch waterbucks.' Well, let's write a goals list." You're already doing the fifth goal and you don't even know you're doing the fifth goal - the fourth one blew, see? It had - it had three fires in it and they all went before you put him on the meter. Horrible, huh?

Well, the pc invalidated each one. Let's say the pc said, "Oh, to hell with it," on "a cowboy" and "a tiger" and "a waterbuck," see?

All right, here's another question. "How do you know which buttons of 19 buttons to use, when testing for pain or sen?" You don't use any buttons for testing for pain or sen. You don't use any buttons for testing for pain or sen. You don't test for pain or sen on buttons. Where did this come from? Who said this? What happened?

Well, you read "a cowboy" - it's not his item, see? And he said, "To hell with it." It doesn't even read! So what, see?

Female voice: It's in a bulletin. It's in the bulletin on pain and sen.

In other words the thing has to have an underlying charge before the pc's invalidation does anything to it to give it a read. See?

Must be a misprint. Must be a misprint. I don't mean to shame you. But I will tell you exactly how you test for it. You test for pain and sen only by saying the terminal or the oppterm, the item, to the pc. Now, there's numerous ways you can say it. You could say - you think it's an oppterm - so you say, "Would you consider - or would you - would you commit overts against a blank?" That's another way of saying it. If it's a terminal, well, "Would a blank commit overts?" That's just other ways of saying it. What do you want to do there is you want to just say it. You say all right, you say, "Hangman. Hangman. Hangman. Hangman. Hangman. Hangman." See if pain turns on. End of session.

So, the amount of action that your meter gets on an item is inherent in the item - not in the pc's ability to invalidate and make the meter read, see? You're going on the basis of the pc is adding charge to it. No, no.

It doesn't matter how you say it. It doesn't matter how you say it. You understand? It doesn't matter how you say the item. But the only way you test the item - the only way you test the item is by saying the item. There are no buttons. The one most likely to turn pain on on an item is the one most fixated on the item. And the one most likely to turn on sensation on an item is the one most fixated by the item. You'll find in every Problems Intensive one or two buttons will run hotter than the rest.

He invalidates a rock slamming item "tiger." You say "tiger." Slam, slam, slam, slam, slam. See? "On this goal has anything been invalidated? On this item has anything been invalidated? On the item "tiger" has anything been invalidated?" - slam, slam, slam, slam, slam, slam, slam. Well, you had an invalidation earlier on the list, didn't you, and nothing rock slammed?

Female voice: The bulletin says you use - you could also use the seventeen buttons ...

Well, so it isn't the pc's ability to rock slam that you're meeting. It's the fact that when he invalidates a rock slam - potentially rock slamming item - you'll get a rock slam. In other words, his invalidation only activates the charge that is there.

Not to test for whether it's a - not to test for pain or sen.

So the activation of the charge that is there is what he's doing. So naturally, you're not going to be able to clear up a really charged item. You say, "On this goal has anything been invalidated?" Pang!

That's just ways of asking it. See , what she doesn't get is the first part of it is is the basic on all this is it's just the item that does it. See, it's just a - see, it's just the method of asking the item.

"Well," he says, "Yes, I so - and - so and so - and - so and so - and - so." Well, that clears off Invalidate. But you read this item again, you say "tiger." Pang! See?

Female voice: What she's wondering about is ...

And if it's the item, you're not going to get rid of it. Chances of it submerging are very slight.

Oh, dear! Oh, on page 3 of this - what this mystery is all about - is she's thinking that you ask many Prehav levels for this. No, you ask the Prehav level - let's say you've listed "Who or what would determine?" Let's say "determine" was the Prehav level. And you said, "Who or what would be - determine?" And you finally got an item, and now you want - you - you just use that "determine" in the test line. That test line - it's just "determine" would be the only one you use. But that's just a way of asking for it. You understand? You sure you do?

Of course, you can take some goal, and just cave in on this goal and it doesn't read anymore and then prepcheck it and it reads again, and so forth. But you never - that's why it's the goal. It has - you can't completely get rid of the charge. Sometimes it disappears and sometimes it appears and it's back and forth and it never cleans up and there's always pain on it, or something like that, see.

Female voice: Well, I - I do understand that, but it says down here - uh - you're using your buttons - the Tiger Drill buttons. . .

But that's what you're reading on the meter. You're not reading the fact that Joe, a pc - by invalidation - makes a tick. You're reading that when he invalidates an item which has a tick in it, you get a tick. You get that?

Female voice: She's asking you the Tiger Drill buttons, you know, like would you say "Consider protesting." That's an overt, like a "Fail to reveal."

Audience: Yes.

Listen. Listen. Don't leave this course thinking this. But the pain or the sen has nothing to do with the button. You understand? The button has nothing to do with it. It is the item which turns on the pain or sen and you can ask the item in various ways to get the pc's attention on the item. So we don't care what buttons or levels are used with the item, it's just a mechanism of getting the pc's attention on the item. And when - but basically it's just "Waterbuck. Waterbuck. Waterbuck." And he says blaahhh! - sen, see? And you say, "Tiger. Tiger. Tiger." Ow! - pain. That's a terminal. Tiger - terminal: waterbuck. He's reversed. Now, you know, a reversed pc - tiger's always an oppterm. Every Scientologist knows that. All right, that's all there is to that. That's all I can tell you about it. But it doesn't matter, the other - it would just be a point.

So therefore, the most cursory tiger drilling will sort out your items.

One thing I want you to know about all that is some people make it faster than others. And the best way - the best way to get cleared is actually to be a good auditor. You'll find that there's a direct relationship to this in most cases. Best way to get cleared is to be a good auditor. Of course, the way to be a good auditor is to deliver a good session.

Now, you get this main item - this is the one. You can't make it go out, you see? "On this goal," or "On this item, has anything been invalidated?" Pang!

And although the averages on this sometimes don't look like this to you, there'll be a lot of people asking you this question as to how to do it all, and so forth. And although they don't sometimes look like the averages are right - you're auditing well and you're getting lousy sessions - remember that you've given some lousy sessions when you were getting good auditing too. The average balances out to a marked degree. And the very best way to get Clear is to give good auditing. Actually and truthfully so. Those people who do not give good auditing actually, oddly enough, are those who are making the least progress. Which I think is quite remarkable. It's sort of poetic. They sort of get averaged out along the line.

And you say, "All right, what was it?"

But more important than that arithmetical figure is just this - you can get Clear, yes, you can get up to the first - goal Clear. But how are you going to get to the second - goal Clear? All right, that's fine. That's fine. Now supposing you get to second - goal Clear, and you go along ten lives and so forth. Now let's ask the burning question: How are you going to get Clear? Well, your very best chance of getting Clear ten lives from now is having given good sessions now and taught good auditing now and kept it going. Because it'll still be here and it'll still be clearing people in ten lives.

And he says, "So - and - so."

I've looked at this any way I could look at it. And I've come to the conclusion that there is no substitute for good auditing and good dissemination. And also I see very clearly that there is just this as a factor. There is no arithmetical equivalent. There are people around who have been clearing people, who've been auditing like mad and who haven't been receiving good auditing, and the average isn't up. See, the average is not good for that particular person. Actually, to a marked degree it isn't for me. I've gotten some lousy sessions and I've given lots of good ones. You understand?

"On this item has anything been invalidated?" It's gone now. You say the item again, "Tiger," crash! All right.

All right. But as time goes on that could reverse, too, couldn't it? Because actually, as far as my getting OT with exclamation points is concerned - it actually totally depends on me continuing to give good sessions. Do you see from that point of view? See? Now, whether or not I can hold out long enough to give enough good sessions to eventually have enough auditors so that I can have some auditing too, this is one of the things which I have to worry about. But nevertheless it's true. As long as I go on auditing and giving good sessions I will someday make OT.

"On this item has anything been suggested?" Tick. You get the Suggest off. "Tiger," crash! See? "On this item has a mistake been made?" Tick.

That's the way - that's the way the cookie crumbles, that's the way the wheel turns. And if you're worried sometime, desperately worried about getting Clear or clearer or something of that sort - you're really desperately worried, then audit like hell. See, that's my best advice to you. Because it's advice that I myself take.

"Well, I did, I thought it wasn't it."

All right, so you've audited many times longer and far better than the auditing you have received in your opinion. All right. Well, that's just how long you have to audit to get some. You see, who said it was an easy hill to climb? It is not an easy hill to climb. I think with horror of some of the kids in LA, 1950, used to tell me that the ideal clearing was to be able to insert a needle into somebody's gluteus maximus and give one single shot and that would make the person Clear. And they were actually hoping that some chemical research of some kind or another would wind up ... Well, of course, at our stage of development we know that'd be totally silly. But they thought this would be ideal clearing. Well, actually, it wouldn't be ideal clearing because it wouldn't have done anything for anybody. It would have exteriorized them, wouldn't have returned anything to them at all.

"All right. Good. "Tiger," crash! You say, "All right."

Now causation of clearing breeds clearing. And that's all I can say about it. It does. Definitely. Now, to some degree, I have been laggardly in giving you techniques and so forth, in somebody's opinion - but in actual fact you got them about two or three thousand years before they were due. So, give me the credit of having developed them before any normal course of research procedure would have developed them.

Now you've got to prove it up so you move upstairs with your Tiger Drilling, don't you see? Now you're going to get "Careful of," and you're going to get "Protest," and you're going to monkey with this thing. Next thing you know it turns on a rock slam, see, but ordinary tiger drilling of items - until you want to work something over with the Big Tiger, see? So you - what you've done is take Tiger Drilling and graded it up to Big Tiger, see? And then graded actually Big Tiger up to something horrendous. So you're still wondering what Big Tiger is.

Now, it's never an easy job to clear somebody, don't ever get the idea that it is. Don't ever try to persuade somebody that it is. This guy walks up and "Clear" - the worst thing in the world that you can say to this person is "Oh, well, yes, yes. Just pay your money over on the right, there, and come on through here, and we'll clear you."

We were talking to you about Big Tiger. You could say six buttons, with "Protest" occasionally used - Big Tiger, perfectly adequate. The original Tiger Drill is as published in the bulletin. That's little Tiger, ordinary Tiger.

Honest, you would find that the person would work much better in the line of clearing - would work extremely better in the line of clearing - if you looked at him with an entirely different approach. And said, "Are you sure you want to tackle it? It's a hard road. Once in a while somebody is just terribly lucky and finds it fairly easy, but ordinarily it's a very, very rough road. It has its ups and downs and it has its heartbreaks and it has this and that. The end product, well, if you stay with it, it can be delivered. It's well worth having at the other end of the line. Well worth having. But we don't want you coming into this co - audit or we don't want you coming into this HGC thinking that this is an easy thing to do. That all you have to do is roll up your sleeve and we punch you with a little needle and you are promptly Clear. Because that isn't the way it goes. Now, as long as you've lived and as much as you've done, how could it be easy?"

And you go sweeping down that list, crash - crash - crash - crash - crash. Some marvelous thing happened today - where's May? Marvelous thing happened today, we had a rocket read on the goal "to catch catfish." I mean, marvelous! I sat there and laughed. I knew sooner or later this was going to hook into somebody's goal line or something of the sort. Sure enough, the pc used to catch catfish ever since she was six.

Person says, "Well, there's something to what you say." That it can be done at all is absolutely miraculous. Because it's never been done before on this planet. Never. So their approach to clearing, of course, is in the degree they seek clearing with the ease to the degree that they themselves cannot confront furnishing any effort. See, if the person can furnish no effort, can have no causative action of any kind whatsoever, you'll also find the person has never done anything, ever. And then you will find in addition to that, that this individual has also the longest road to go. The individual who's seeking the shortest route has the longest road to go. And the first way and easiest way you could break somebody's heart, now that we - you know that people don't clear easily - and I think most of you've got a high reality on it that they can go Clean You see yourselves approaching this on a gradient. It's a reality that it exists.

But she was thinking of what would be the effect side. She was trying to figure out a bulletin while it was being done. What's the effect side of catching catfish? Well, to be caught by a catfish, see? And that was what was giving the rocket read. I think it's marvelous. Somebody's going to come up some day on one of these items lists and get a rock slam on "tiger.72

But you make it harder for somebody telling him how easy it is. Because he has the heartbreak - I can tell you this out of experience, of telling them all ways - all the different ways you can tell him. But he'd have the heartbreak of learning out that it was a tough road, having counted on it being an easy road.

"When is a rock slam recoverable? Am I right in understanding it is not when an item has been fully opposed and after it has been listed from, with a dwindling R/S? Would you please say more about the probable stability?"

Now, I think you would get a far better response from people if when they said, "Well, that's fine, now here's all this money and I've got five hundred and sixty - two pounds and I want you to audit me and I want you to get this wonderful thing called clearing, and so forth. . ." And so you say, "Oh, nothing to that. Sit down in the chair, and so forth. And here's the receipt and everything's fine." Instead of you going something like - just let the five hundred and twenty pounds sit right on the front of the desk. Just don't touch it, see. Have him sit down and say, "This - I want you to understand this. This is not an easy road. This is a tough road. It is not a short road. Its end product exceeds anything that has ever been exceeded - but it is not an easy road to travel. And it's going to have ups and downs and it's going to have heartbreaks."

Oh, no. When is it recoverable? Well, it - actually, it7s always recoverable and you actually don't expect a rock slam to totally diminish on a very good reliable item by being opposed and by being represented. It won't diminish.

And if that person puts that five hundred and twenty pounds back in his pocket and walks out the door, thank your stars he did. Because it would have cost you a thousand pounds in time to have gotten an adequate result. You see the difference here?

It'll diminish, but it won't disappear. And you can always recover them.

Now, there's a difference between certain clearing and easy clearing. Do you know the world wants from us - to know that we are doing something about things? You know, that's really what the world wants from us, that we are actually doing things about things. We're doing something about the world, we're doing something about man. We do know where we're going, we are getting someplace, we are making progress and so forth. We actually are living up to that degree of what people expect of us. Don't add to our burdens the fact that with a snap of the fingers, they're going to all be Clear. Because it isn't true and it never will be true. If it's only just the somatics a person is experiencing during the period of clearing, it'd drive most people off. They say they know they've got to go on through it, but do they have to?

If it was a reliable item you can always recover them. You say just, "What wouldn't you give it?" and get a couple and all of a sudden you've got your rock slam back again. You can always make these things recover providing you don't do it too often.

Now, people expect of us to go on forward and do something about it. Yes, we're going on forward, we're doing something about it. We're doing something about it in a remarkably short period of time. This is very remarkable. That something can be done about it, proportional to the skill of administration of the technology, is absolutely certain. Things can be done. The only thing that's letting us down at all today is weak or imperfect application of technology, providing the auditor is willing to realize that a few lines dead-end and a few terminals don't represent and that he can get skunked and lay an egg and go on in and pitch again. He knows he can carve his way out. Sometimes goals are hard to find, sometimes the goals are easy to find. One fellow, the first goal he found on somebody took him fifty hours. Next goal took him three hours. Was that because he was more skilled? No. No, it just happened to be in a difference between the pcs. Next goal's going to take him seventy - five hours, maybe.

Now, the only thing that makes them disappear, utterly and completely is when they are paired. Now, as you know, you can't clean up a lock on a serious withhold. Let's put it this way: the guy has a basic withhold. And you're trying to run O/W on this person - the person has a basic withhold. All right. And you catch the with - . The basic on it is when the person was eleven. You're trying to pick it off when the person was twenty - one. And it just sort of is a dirty needle mess, you see? And you never find the basic on this chain. This is this - the same structure exists whether we're using the structure currently or not, you see?

But the point I am making here is the goal can be attained. And if you tell people with that certainty we have attained it, we can attain it and it is attainable - and don't interpret that as something that is easy to do, because it is not. If it were easy to do, it would have been done many, many times before in man's history. And it's never been done in man's history. So, of course, a fellow has to be smart to do it, and of course it is a rough thing to do.

All right, similarly, you really can't get all the disturbance off of an item until you've got the disturbance off the Rock and opprock. It's going to hang forever. It won't ever completely wash. It'll submerge, it'll suppress, it'll do this. But you can take most reliable items after they've been handled and opptermed and everything - and if you were willing to put in time enough to prepcheck the reliable item - this is very extraordinary, you see; never would prepcheck a reliable item that is three pairs above where you're now working. You just wouldn't do it. But if you sat down and did it, you would recover the slam. That's quite interesting isn't it?

Now, there's where you sit on dissemination, and you sit along those lines - you'll be far, far better off than saying, "Well, all you have to do is sit down in the chair and I'm going to make a few magic passes." Seventy - five hours later, well, you're still making those few magic passes. You're heart's broken and now so is the pc's. So you told him it was a hard road and he gave you his goal in the second hour. And he listed out in twelve. So you made a liar out of yourself. Well, anytime you want to make a liar out of yourself that way, do so. It's the other way that you can't retract.

Now, it'll reduce, it'll be less charged and you can knock it out. You can kick the thing to pieces by pulling missed withholds - which you shouldn't do, by the way - you can pull missed withholds on it and it'll deintensify. You can deintensify it in numerous ways. But why do so? The best way to deintensify it is pull it right on down to the bottom of the chain. Because it isn't - hasn't gotten really enough residual charge in it to bother with. It's been opposed, it's been represented - particularly that. It isn't immediately recoverable as a rock slam; you have to work it over a little bit to get it to slam again. What do you want it to slam for?

Well, I wish you all, those of you leaving, lots of luck. I'll probably see you before you go. And that's all we have from here tonight.

The only time you really want one of these items to slam again is when you take a pc over from another auditor and you're suspicious of the reliability of those items - and you can get the things to slam.

Thank you very, very much.

Now, I don't - you should not go to the tremendous step of doing a Prepcheck on each item. That becomes silly. But you could make them slam again. Your most basic test is to make a very short list of "What wouldn't he give that thing," if it's an oppterm. And if it's a terminal, why, "What wouldn't it give," you see? You'll see the slam back. It's a very cursory test.

It frankly doesn't matter too much unless your - unless somebody has laboriously found about twelve items on some pc. Then you get the pc and you're not sure whether these were all reliable items or not - and pcs are the darnedest invalidators in the world. They're liable to tell you that these weren't the items, that they never cognited on them. You get some wild tales from pcs. You shouldn't believe them.

Because what's happened? The thing is submerged. It's done this, it's done that. They'll even invalidate them. They'll dramatize the invalidations of them. The only time you really get into trouble is when you want to list some goals! You want to start right out and list some goals, against one of these oppterms.

Now, as soon as you want to do that, you're stuck, if you had to prove up every one of them. Now, the one you will now find alive is the one which is most like the opp and opprock - the Rock and opprock, see. That's just the basic pair on the chain. The one that is now alive is most like the basic pair on the chain. List goals against it and be happy. Just read all twelve items, see. One of them rock slams, see. If twelve items don't - just start down and treat it as a goals list - just do little Tiger on them. See, pang - pang - pang - pang - pang. All of a sudden one slams. That's good enough. You understand? Do the rest of them if you want to find out which one slammed the best. All right, you've got one now that's slamming very nicely; list goals against it. You see how you would do that?

Frankly, you will - the point is well taken - because you will take over pcs who have a complete line plot which has nothing to do with the price of fish. And one of the quickest ways you can tell them is, is the needle dirty. You take over this pc who has had ten items found and you take a look at the needle and you start to ask the pc some question or get the pc in - session; you got a dirty needle. It's going bzz, bzzz, bzz - bzz - bzz, bzz - bzz.

Ah, there's something wrong. There's something wrong with that plot, that's the first thing you do. And your best remedy is not to go back over and check somebody else's work but to do some effective work on it. Just find some more items. See, it's relatively unimportant, then, to prove up somebody else's plot. That's real, real weird. Also, there's another sign that I could give you, the pc will be senned up. Lots of sen. Lots of sen and a dirty needle and the pc's line plot was for the birds. Something wrong with that plot.

All right, enough of that. The next question is, "Could you please say more about the probable stability of a first - goal Clear. When next goals key in old one, expect totally different valences and so forth and a black - and a different aberration type."

There is no study on this. I haven't even thought any study had any necessity at all. A first - goal Clear is about three goals from the basic pattern that started him out being aberrated. And actually that person will dramatize something to some degree until the third goal is listed clear. And it'll be in the same pattern line. It'll have different names and it'll have different words and different music and it won't have as much - he won't have anywhere near the influence over the pc.

But I know a pc right now that I'm just praying the day will come when she gets her fourth goal. Because this pc is still chopping in certain directions like acid. And it's still from that first channel, you understand? That was an indifferently complete job on the first goal, an indifferently complete job on the second goal, you see. I mean, this wasn't very good work that worked this pc up there, so there's still residuals there, don't you see? And I should think to bust the whole thing up it'd be about the fourth goal. If you're going to get indifferent clearing of this particular type to blow the lot, why, you'd have to get about the fourth goal up the line, see?

Now, if the person had been very well, thoroughly brushed up and cleaned up on the second goal, why, you should sort of expect this dramatization of various sectors to cut down. But let me put it to you this way. You know how much your own or your pc's conduct changes on the finding of one item. You find one good reliable item and you're going to get some change. Well, that pc's still having some trouble in other sectors, aren't they? Yeah, that change is quite stable, it'll stay that way.

All right, now let's take the pc's first goal - cleared. Well, that's going to introduce an awful lot of difference to this pc, you know? But let me count it up for you. Let me count it up for you. The pc probably won't have a lot of physical troubles. If they exist, they will go away. But they may still exist. The pc won't be mad and choppy and violent and beyond control in certain directions. They'll just snap in those directions. Maybe before they were too apathetic to snap, see? So now they'll chop. The world around them looks much brighter, they're much more sensible and they can work their way through it much better. They're still having a hell of a time perceiving the other man - the other person over there - they're still having trouble with that.

First dynamic is almost analogous to a first - goal Clear. Doesn't matter what dynamic it was on, the first goal basically cleans up a person's concentrated worry about himself. Put it that way. And it might not be too awfully observable. Oh, people would observe it, yes, there'd be an awful difference to them, but, I mean, as far as he's concerned other people haven't changed yet and there's a lot of reservations here one way or the other. He feels stable, he feels happy, you're not trying to degrade this state. But it's a question of how far has a man got to go?

Now, if that's listed out and has given a free needle - the way you were listing now on your Routine 3 - 21 - I'm very sure that is very stable. Because I've seen stability increasing every time we did a better polished job of it, I've seen the stability better. That's pretty good.

But as - let's take now this fourth - goal Clear. Let's just skip those intermediate states. You realize that a fourth - goal Clear probably needs a body to talk? That's aberrated, man! I don't care how else you look at it, that's aberrated. Needs a body to talk. May still eat; that's crazy, man! Breathes; what do you want all this drafty stuff pouring in and out all the time for? Influenced by gravity; drops his watch and it'll hit the deck - break, too. You get the relative state of affairs. You see, you're going on up there - you're up throughout the sixth dynamic. And he'll be still having trouble with the sixth dynamic. Do you get what I'm talking about? I needn't go over it in any hideous state.

I think the present stability of a first - goal Clear is absolutely remarkable. But you can get your idea of the situation this way. Get the idea of pinning your whole hopes for a complete change of this pc on getting one item blown. Get the idea of that. Now, you know how much the pc changed in getting that one item blown. Made a big difference to the pc. Something that could - that's not negligible.

Well, of course, a goal like this is astronomically greater than just the one item, see, because there are dozens and dozens of these pairs. But you can't put all your hopes on this first goal, either, see? It's always a mistake to make the big - to make one thing do it. And you're going to make this mistake sometimes when you're deintensifying a rock slammer or you're going to oppterm - they're rock slamming like mad on Scientology, see, so you're going to oppterm this and you get the oppterm, see? And this cools them off and so on. But you've put your whole stake on just this, see? And Scientology now makes them unhappy. See? They're not trying to cut it up and they don't think it's cutting them up, but it makes them unhappy, do you see? In other words, there was something left, see, and there will continue to be, until they're up there a lot of packages, and so on.

You can make an enormous change - can make an enormous change and the only thing I must warn you against is making a mistake of absolutes - believing they are obtainable. Believing that this person who is an alcoholic, after you've gotten three items off, will cease to be an alcoholic. See? He'll probably be queasy on the subject of being an alcoholic right up to the second goal. See? He'll have little moments of queasiness. He may not even tell you about them, you see. Oh, he's cured of it. He isn't doing that now. But you say, "Well, I'll cure an alcoholic. I'll just oppose alcohol and I'll get one item and then he's absolutely - never afterwards he's going to be an alcoholic."

Well, if you compute like that, you're going to get lots of loses. Similarly, if you expect that every first - goal Clear is going to be able to fend for himself on all dynamics, you're going to get lots of loses.

Because the first - goal Clear won't fend for himself on all dynamics. Hell generally fend for himself very ba - very, very well on the first dynamic - do infinitely better. It isn't they become more first dynamicy than they were before; they just get a first dynamic. They become aware of themselves, or something like this. It's the first time this has ever happened, don't you see? Before that time, they're withholding themselves. So that's the story of stability.

As far as stability is concerned, how long will the state last? Well, boy, we've had some of these going for quite a while now. And we've had some of them checked out after the fact and so forth, and they seem to be staying remarkably stable.

A case has to be pretty well cleaned up before it stays stable. The degree of - the second goal doesn't operate as a key - in against the first - goal action. That might be something interesting to you. You sometimes are going to have trouble to get the second goal to key in so you can list it. In other words, you're going to have trouble sometimes killing that free needle.

Imagine trying to get the rudiments in on a very well cleared first - goal Clear that you can't read a meter on. The best thing to do is to get them to read a goals list because that'll key them in faster than anything else. They'll now - they won't dramatize their second goal any more than they have been, however. Dramatization doesn't increase by reason of restimulation. They just go on that way.

The speed with which the second goal cleans up is what's got me startled. I've seen several of them now and I'm just - gee! You know? Do an eight hundred and fifty goals list - just your Routine 3 - 21 - do an eight hundred and fifty goals list and so forth. I'd seriously doubt you'd have to do very much with items. But on the other hand on some cases you might.

I'm thinking of the case who made up his goal last century. Did you realize, I mean, that we might hit a case that the first goal was postulated in 1810, and all you've cleared is back up to 1810 and then it's free as a bird? Then the second goal is what you'd have trouble with, wouldn't it? Well, we don't know too much about that, but those are some hazardings.

All right, let's get a few more here. I think I just answered that question.

Oh, "Dwindling rock slam." You had a hot item. "What does it signify?" You had a hot item. Don't worry about it. Sometimes you get a dwindling rock slam; sometimes you don't. And you're doing very fine, now, without finding any. So it's just a phenomenon.

Now, you could have used it before when you had a limited number of items you were going to find goals on, right? See, when you had a limited number of items you're going to find goals on, therefore, you had to find a particular kind of item in order to list goals against it, see? Well, therefore, you needed a dwindling rock slam. Well, sometimes you're going to get dwindling rock slams and sometimes you aren't. But you're not going to use them to find a goal with anyway so why bother with them?

You don't necessarily only use that you have a dwindling rock slam on to find the goal from, either. In other words, dwindling rock slam is actually a phenomenon. It now indicates that it exists. You'll see it, but if you don't get it, so what? Doesn't mean anything, doesn't mean you haven't got - you're going to get an invalid item.

But let me tell you, the line that you get that dwindles will give you a honey. You always get a better item on a line that dwindles than a line that doesn't. That doesn't mean you should go around looking for dwindling ones because you get perfectly good ones that you have to get anyway on lines which when listed, don't dwindle. Nondwindling lines - no dwindling rock slam on the line - give you a perfectly usable item. You understand?

"If when oppositioning a rock slamming Scientology terminal, a very persistent dirty needle turns on and the list is five hundred items long and it'll still dirty needles, and missed withholds does not immediately remedy the condition, what should one do?"

Well, there's a missing datum here. Did the thing turn on any rock slams? If while you're listing you got some rock slams, why, you got a pretty good chance of finding an item on it. And you certainly better list the dirty needle out. But let me tell you that if it didn't turn on any rock slams - you're just going up a blind alley.

Remember that it - your nulling bulletin is absolutely correct - it must come from a fruitful source. And this particular item is not from a fruitful source. See?

There is a missing datum here - the question is unanswerable just to this degree. So a dirty needle turns on. Well, if it's from a correct source that it's going to get you an item, the dirty needle will turn into a rock slam, turn into a dirty needle and then dwindle out and vanish and you'll have a complete list and you can null it and find a rock slamming item.

Well, let's just take at random, "Who built this house?" Let's just pick one out of the air, see, and we're going to list "Who built this house?" from a PC, see? We're going to run this. It's way out of time, space. We haven't assessed for it. It makes no sense anyhow and now we're going to get a list. And let me tell you, that list will go dirty needle, dirty needle, sen, sen, sen, dirty needle, dirty needle, dirty needle, sen, more sen, dirty needle, dirty needle; needle maybe clear up. Something might rock slam for a moment

Pc’s protest over the charge, see? Just an instant, you know? And - dirty needle, dirty needle, dirty needle, dirty needle, dirty needle, dirty needle - five hundred items. Dirty needle, dirty needle, dirty needle - six hundred items. Dirty needle, dirty needle, dirty needle - seven hundred items. Dirty needle, dirty needle. You'd better wake up! It's from nowhere. Literally and factually true.

Now, we'll run the case for a while and someday come back to the list and null the list and what do you know. We now have rock slams on it. But now the case has been unburdened.

That's a case of - that's, by the way, auditors are going to make mistakes on that, I suddenly realize. Auditors are going to make mistakes on it. They're going to do this. I myself just picked one off the PC and did a list exactly like this - and I wish I hadn't started it. But the sen dwindled. I eventually wound up with no sen on it. I listed the sen off the list, which I think is quite remarkable, but it was not a properly picked - up thing. It was just an arbitrary test line. Sen came off of it and PC felt mighty sick listing it, but at the end of the line sen was off, pretty well - and I took items - it had R/Sed a bit here and there, once in a blue moon - and I took those and I tiger drilled the R/Sing items, and the second I did a dirty needle came back on the list. I said ah - ah - ah - ah - ah - ah! We're out of here, see?

Otherwise it'd looked good, see? The sen dwindled. I mean, you haven't got any sen on the pc now. And you had a rock slam in, I think, six items on this list of many, many pages - rock slammed slightly for a moment. Pc thought of them. When the pc thought of them they rock slammed. Obviously this was a very heavily charged list, but it was leading no place. At the end of something like fifteen or fourteen pages or something like this, why, still got a dirty needle on it.

What is this? What is this list? You might say it's premature. That list you ought to have been listing on after the pc has had another thirty items found, you got the idea? It's too far down the track. Pc wouldn't have any reality on it if you found it. It's not going to slam. The item that is on the list is not going to slam. It's too suppressed. It's too much in the package. It's - see, it's too early. There's too much force in it. The pc can't confront up to it. Don't you see all these things?

Therefore a great deal of good sense has to be used in choosing what lines to list. And by choosing the wrong line to list, why, of course, you get dirty needles and you get everything else and you get yourself into a lot of trouble and you get the pc into a lot of trouble and you don't know whether you're coming or going. That's listing from the wrong line.

Let's say you do a lousy Prehav assessment. Let's say you do just a stinker - horrible! It should have been "prevent knowing," and you came up with "tell everybody," see? This thing is just lousy, see? And you go in there with great ambition and you list away. This is the condition which you're going to find - just the conditions I've just described to you. You can go on and on and on. I think you could list ten thousand items on it and you would still not have listed it out. Because the item itself is not going to appear to the pc on the list. The pc will never recognize the item, even if you found it.

Supposing you had some method of finding it and handing it to the pc on a silver platter and say, "Here it is - Homo sap." You know? Pc would say, "It hasn't anything to do with me."

Now, you've got the pc's goal listed down and you - case is way advanced - case can tolerate and confront a great deal much more force, you see. You've got dozens of items in addition now to this. All of a sudden, mysteriously, on the list will appear "Homo sap" and the pc will say, "That's my item." See? That's a very premature action. Most of these wrong lines, however, give you just exactly nothing. They don't give you a dirty needle or anything. But you can get ahold of one of these lines that someday will come up on the pc, but not now. And that's the way it behaves. Okay?

All right. Time for one more before the break, huh?

The question is, "Must this pc who is listing on the goal have rock slamming items found, or could he go Clear by continued listing on the four lines?"

Answer: Pc did not go Clear with the four lines, so therefore pc must have rock slamming items found and those items must be opptermed. The reason this pc didn't go Clear is because of bypassed items. Got it? He just couldn't list out to Clear, so you must have bypassed something. You have to go back and find it, okay?

I dare say some day you may be clearing that way. Them as list straight out onto Clear and so forth, you never bother to. But a case that's been listing for a while and he isn't Clear yet; somebody certainly better get interested. Okay. Aw, we've got time for one more.

"Will we be able to take meters back into the US without trouble and when will the Mark Vs be available?" Actually, Mark Vs are available - a few of them are available right now - some more of them are coming in. Edgar could tell you more about that. When are Mark Vs available, Edgar?

Male voice: Tomorrow.

Tomorrow? So there's - there's Mark Vs available. As far as taking them into the US without trouble is concerned, the people have never stopped a meter which was by surface package mail or was in somebody's paws as a personal effect. No meters have been stopped.

The only meters that have been stopped have been by air shipment and in bulk. And that's big enough for the FDA's myopic little man eye to see, and it comes in with much higher velocity than they at their state of case can tolerate. And so they're stopping those madly. You don't even have to make a point of taking a meter into the United States. The fellow says - customs is poking around and he says, "What's this?" Well, don't tell him it's a time bomb, because they've been known to arrest people just for saying it. But say, "Well, that's just a - I'm a minister - that's something which we use in confessionals."

"Oh, is that so?"

The only trouble is, the only - that's the best way to classify it. The actually, look where the Catholic church had been if all their confessionals had been done with an E - Meter. Look at the missed withholds they must have missed. Anyhow - that probably shattered them. So it's a good explanation.

The only liability - the only liability you get into, Tom, is the fact that when you've told them this, they will probably call over a buddy who is interested in psychology and he will want to talk to you about it. Not because he wants to find out anything, but because he'd like to get out of the racket he's in. That's a fact. That happened to us the last time in New York. We almost couldn't get through customs. We were being too bothered by customs men who wished to join the club. Expect no trouble in that direction. Tell them it's your personal property and that's a tool of the trade and you're all set. They won't say anything more about it.

Okay?

Let's take a break.